Phaedrus 263a · 263a

Iron, Silver, and the Just

Read the full text in our reader

Socrates — ὅταν τις ὄνομα εἴπῃ σιδήρου ἢ ἀργύρου… τὸ αὐτὸ πάντες διενοήθημεν… δικαίου ἢ ἀγαθοῦ… ἄλλος ἄλλῃ φέρεται καὶ ἀμφισβητοῦμεν;

Socrates lays down a distinction that looks obvious and turns out to be one of the deepest in the dialogue. There are two classes of words. Say a word like 'iron' or 'silver' — sidēros, argyros — and 'we all think the same thing,' pantes dienoēthēmen; every mind reaches for the identical object, because the thing is concrete and perceptible and there is nothing to argue about. But say 'just' or 'good' — dikaion, agathon — and everything comes apart: 'each is carried a different way,' allos allēi pheretai, and we 'dispute,' amphisbētoumen, the word tells us, going two ways at once. And Socrates adds the observation that makes the point bite: we disagree about these words not only with one another but 'with ourselves.' A single person, pressed on what justice or goodness really is, will find his own convictions pulling against each other. Some words rest on a shared perception; the greatest words rest on nothing we have yet secured.

Word by word

Socrates
ὅτανhótanwhen, wheneverτιςtissomeone / anyone / a certain oneὄνομαónomathe wordεἴπῃeípēisaysσιδήρουsidḗrouof ironor / thanἀργύρουargýrouof silverτὸtheαὐτὸautòthe sameπάντεςpántesall / every / eachδιενοήθημενdienoḗthēmenwe thinkδικαίουdikaíouof the justor / thanἀγαθοῦagathoûof the goodἄλλοςálloseachἄλλῃállēielsewhereφέρεταιphéretaiis carried, goesκαὶkaìand / alsoἀμφισβητοῦμενamphisbētoûmenwe dispute;

The setting

Before dissecting the speeches, Socrates draws a distinction that will organize everything. About some words we all naturally agree; about others we fall into dispute. Say 'iron' or 'silver,' he points out, and every mind lands on the same thing. But say 'just' or 'good,' and we scatter — each person pulled a different way, quarreling not only with one another but even, on reflection, with ourselves.

A note on this passage

This modest-seeming distinction is the doorway to the whole positive method of the dialogue, and it is worth seeing why Plato thinks it matters so much. His point is not merely that people happen to disagree about morality more than about metals. It is that the two kinds of words are anchored in different ways, and that the difference determines where rhetoric — and philosophy — become urgent. Words like 'iron' point to something present to the senses; the object steadies the word, and agreement follows automatically, so no art of persuasion is needed and none is dangerous. But words like 'just' and 'good' point to nothing the senses can fix. There is no lump of Justice to hold up, no ingot of the Good to weigh; these are exactly the realities the palinode said the soul glimpsed only before birth and now struggles to recall. Because no shared perception anchors them, they float — and into that float rushes rhetoric. The disputed words are precisely the ones a speaker can bend, because there is no object present to contradict him; they are where minds can be led anywhere. So the domain of maximum disagreement is also the domain of maximum danger and maximum stakes, since 'just' and 'good' are the words on which laws, wars, and lives turn. And Socrates's little addition — that we disagree even with ourselves — is the sharpest part. It means the trouble is not just social but internal: we do not actually know what we mean by our own most important words. That confession is the beginning of philosophy, because it shows that the first task, before any speech can be honest or any art of speaking real, is to fix these floating words — to find out what justice and goodness truly are, to give the contested terms a definition stable enough that a mind cannot be slid off it by a clever chain of resemblances. This is exactly the work the whole Republic undertakes for 'justice,' and it is the work the method Socrates is about to introduce — collection and division — is designed to do. The rhetorician's very first act of skill, it will turn out, is to know which of his words belong to the iron-and-silver class and which to the just-and-good class, and to labor at defining the latter before he dares to persuade anyone about them. The analysis of the speeches begins here: Lysias, we will see, plunged straight into speaking about 'love' — one of the most disputed words of all — without ever pausing to say what it is.

Read the full commentary — and tap any word for its dictionary entry — in the interlinear reader.

Open Phaedrus 263a in the full reader

Always open passages in the reader

From the Great Library

You are reading a page of the Phaedrus — the whole book is free in our interlinear reader.

The Great Library Project presses the classics in their original languages, glossed word by word — free to read, always. Browse the whole library.

Also on our shelves:

Phaedrus 263a — The Great Library Project interlinear edition · greatlibraryproject.com/book/phaedrus/263a/