The Strong Do Not Wish to Be Strong
Read the full text in our reader
Socrates — ἐπιθυμεῖν, ἐὰν μὴ ἐνδεὲς ᾖ; ἐμοὶ μὲν γὰρ θαυμαστῶς δοκεῖ, ὦ Ἀγάθων, ὡς ἀνάγκη εἶναι· σοὶ δὲ πῶς;
Agathon — κἀμοί, φάναι, δοκεῖ.
Socrates — καλῶς λέγεις. ἆρʼ οὖν βούλοιτʼ ἄν τις μέγας ὢν μέγας εἶναι, ἢ ἰσχυρὸς ὢν ἰσχυρός;
Agathon — ἀδύνατον ἐκ τῶν ὡμολογημένων. οὐ γάρ που ἐνδεὴς ἂν εἴη τούτων ὅ γε ὤν.
Socrates — ἀληθῆ λέγεις. εἰ γὰρ καὶ ἰσχυρὸς ὢν βούλοιτο ἰσχυρὸς εἶναι, φάναι τὸν Σωκράτη, καὶ ταχὺς ὢν ταχύς, καὶ ὑγιὴς ὢν ὑγιής— ἴσως γὰρ ἄν τις ταῦτα οἰηθείη καὶ πάντα τὰ τοιαῦτα τοὺς ὄντας
does it desire, if it is not in want? For to me it seems wonderfully clear, Agathon, that it must be so; but to you, how? To me too, he said, it seems. Well said. Then would anyone, being great, wish to be great, or being strong, to be strong? Impossible, from what we have agreed. For surely he would not be in want of these, the one who already is them. True, you say. For if, even being strong, one should wish to be strong, said Socrates, and being swift, swift, and being healthy, healthy — perhaps someone might suppose all such things of those who already have them,
The argument's second stage: no one desires what he already has. Socrates and Agathon agree it is necessary that one desires only what one lacks. Then the test case — would a strong man wish to be strong, or a swift man swift, or a healthy man healthy? Impossible, Agathon says: he could not be in want of what he already is. Socrates anticipates the objection someone might raise, and the thought continues into 200c.
But Socrates is honest enough to raise the counter-case himself: someone might object that people do seem to want to keep the good things they already have. He states it here and will answer it in 200c — that what such a person really desires is to have these things in the future too, which he does not yet possess. It is a careful piece of argument, and its point is merciless: since Eros is desire, and desire is lack, Eros must lack what he loves. Beauty and goodness, which Agathon heaped on the god, are precisely what Eros wants because he does not have them. The whole glowing portrait is being turned inside out.
Read the full commentary — and tap any word for its dictionary entry — in the interlinear reader.
Open Plato, Symposium 200b in the full reader
Always open passages in the reader
You are reading a page of the Plato, Symposium — the whole book is free in our interlinear reader.
The Great Library Project presses the classics in their original languages, glossed word by word — free to read, always. Browse the whole library.
Also on our shelves:
Plato, Symposium 200b — The Great Library Project interlinear edition · greatlibraryproject.com/book/symposium/200b/