ΣΥΜΠΟΣΙΟΝ

Plato, Symposium 200c · 200c

So That We Not Be Deceived

Read the full text in our reader

Socrates — τε τοιούτους καὶ ἔχοντας ταῦτα τούτων ἅπερ ἔχουσι καὶ ἐπιθυμεῖν, ἵνʼ οὖν μὴ ἐξαπατηθῶμεν, τούτου ἕνεκα λέγω— τούτοις γάρ, ὦ Ἀγάθων, εἰ ἐννοεῖς, ἔχειν μὲν ἕκαστα τούτων ἐν τῷ παρόντι ἀνάγκη ἃ ἔχουσιν, ἐάντε βούλωνται ἐάντε μή, καὶ τούτου γε δήπου τίς ἂν ἐπιθυμήσειεν; ἀλλʼ ὅταν τις λέγῃ ὅτι ἐγὼ ὑγιαίνων βούλομαι καὶ ὑγιαίνειν, καὶ πλουτῶν βούλομαι καὶ πλουτεῖν, καὶ ἐπιθυμῶ αὐτῶν τούτων ἃ ἔχω, εἴποιμεν ἂν αὐτῷ ὅτι σύ, ὦ ἄνθρωπε,

such men, and those who have these things, desire the very things they already have — so that we not be deceived, for this reason I say it — for these men, Agathon, if you consider, must have each of these things at present, whatever they have, whether they wish or not; and who would desire that? But whenever someone says that I, being healthy, wish also to be healthy, and being rich, wish to be rich, and I desire these very things I have, we would say to him: you, my good man,

Word by word

Socrates
τεteand (intimate linking)τοιούτουςtoioútoussuch menκαὶkaìandἔχονταςéchontashavingταῦταtaûtathese thingsτούτωνtoútōnof those very thingsἅπερháperwhich exactlyἔχουσιéchousithey haveκαὶkaìalsoἐπιθυμεῖνepithymeîndesire them,ἵνʼhínʼso thatοὖνoûnthenμὴmḕnotἐξαπατηθῶμενexapatēthômenwe be deceived,τούτουtoútoufor thisἕνεκαhénekareasonλέγωlégōI say it—τούτοιςtoútoisfor these menγάρgárfor,ὦôOἈγάθωνAgáthōnAgathon,εἰeiifἐννοεῖςennoeîsyou consider,ἔχεινécheinto haveμὲνmènon the one handἕκασταhékastaeachτούτωνtoútōnof these thingsἐνeninτῷtôitheπαρόντιparóntithe present momentἀνάγκηanánkēof necessityἃhàwhatἔχουσινéchousinthey have,ἐάντεeántewhetherβούλωνταιboúlōntaithey wishἐάντεeánteor whetherμήmḗnot,καὶkaìandτούτουtoútouthisγεgeat least / at any rate / indeedδήπουdḗpousurelyτίςtíswhoἂνànwould / might (potential)ἐπιθυμήσειενepithymḗseienwould desire;ἀλλʼallʼbutὅτανhótanwheneverτιςtissomeoneλέγῃlégēisaysὅτιhótithatἐγὼegṑIὑγιαίνωνhygiaínōnbeing healthyβούλομαιboúlomaiwishκαὶkaìalsoὑγιαίνεινhygiaíneinto be healthy,καὶkaìandπλουτῶνploutônbeing richβούλομαιboúlomaiwishκαὶkaìalsoπλουτεῖνplouteînto be rich,καὶkaìandἐπιθυμῶepithymôI desireαὐτῶνautônthese veryτούτωνtoútōnthingsἃhàwhichἔχωéchōI have,εἴποιμενeípoimenwe would sayἂνànwould / might (potential)αὐτῷautôito himὅτιhótithatσύsýyou,ὦôOἄνθρωπεánthrōpeman,

The setting

Socrates heads off an objection before Agathon can raise it. Someone might say: but people do desire what they already have — the healthy man wants health, the rich man wants riches. Socrates explains why that is not a real counter-example, and starts to spell out what such a person actually means. He is careful — 'so that we not be deceived' — and the reply lands in 200d.

A note on this passage

The care matters because the conclusion is so consequential. If the principle "desire is of what one lacks" survived only by ignoring obvious cases, it could not carry the weight Socrates is about to put on it — the redefinition of Eros as need. So he honours the objection and, in 200d, resolves it: the healthy man who "wants to be healthy" really wants to go on being healthy, to have health in time to come — which he does not yet possess. The lack is smuggled into the future, and the principle holds. Plato is showing his reader how a careful argument protects itself.

Read the full commentary — and tap any word for its dictionary entry — in the interlinear reader.

Open Plato, Symposium 200c in the full reader

Always open passages in the reader

From the Great Library

You are reading a page of the Plato, Symposium — the whole book is free in our interlinear reader.

The Great Library Project presses the classics in their original languages, glossed word by word — free to read, always. Browse the whole library.

Also on our shelves:

❦

Plato, Symposium 200c — The Great Library Project interlinear edition · greatlibraryproject.com/book/symposium/200c/